This is a call to those who support strengthening our national service programs, whether by expanding volunteer programs (ServeNext, AmeriCorps, Learn and Serve America, Senior Corps, and Peace Corps) creating a national service academy (U.S. Public Service Academy), or instituting mandatory national service (Everyone Serves). There is broad interest and support for this cause as evidenced by the writings from voices on the right and left.
The problem, as I see it, is that there is also a vocal opposition to these ideas. That opposition has posted most of the comments on this site. I welcome passion, but want to see that both sides are heard. I will stipulate that the Libertarians will never support the ideas on this site. But many Libertarians would also reject income tax, pollution regulations, and a slew of other policies that most of us see as helping to maintain the society.
So if you think that our country should strengthen its national service programs, share your voice. Many of the dissenting voices on this site choose to post anonymously. You can do so as well. Please show the vocal opposition that there is also a corps of support. Make a comment on this post, or most of the other pieces on this site. I welcome your participation.
Comments
Of Slackers and Hubris
I am a strong believer in *voluntary* service. But when you make "service" mandatory what you get is the half-hearted efforts of people putting in their time because they are required to, resenting it all the way. The quality of the United States military during times of draft is generally much lower than in an all-volunteer army, because while you can compel someone to show up, you can't compel them to do their best work. Furthermore, a lot of 18 year olds are not mature enough to be much use, especially if they're just "doing their time" while in service. Do *you* really want to be the guy in charge of the service project that gets sent 50 angry, sullen gang-bangers who look on you as the most readily available face of their jailer?
Compulsory service is also hubris manifest. You are saying that the very worst service project you might assign me to (or even "allow me to select") is better then the best thing I could come up with on my own to do for that same two years of my life. "But," you might offer, "if you have a sufficiently valuable project of your own in mind, THAT could be your service." And the judgment of my plan's value will be made how, precisely?
Finally, time is ultimately the most precious resource every person has, and it is the only thing distributed completely fairly. You, me, and Bill Gates all had exactly one hour between 1:00 and 2:00 today, and none of us will ever have that hour again. To take away anyone's time in the pursuit of enlightening them to the joys of national service, against their will, is quite literally to steal a portion of their life.
Service is Not It's Own End
A national service program is not intended to teach people the joys of service. It's intended to bring productive energy to important projects. At the same time, it's intended to develop those people through experience, discipline, challenge, and structure. Yes, our time is limited, but if everyone serves, no one has an unfair advantage.
Though I favor getting those inexperienced 18-year-olds into the program, I would be m open to structuring variations on the program that brought people in later when they were more experienced. America's "greatest generation" was a cohort of young men (and some women) who were drafted (or who volunteered) into military service. When that large section of the population had the experience of service we won a war and later benefited from a group of people well prepared to serve their country in their private lives. (And I bet that colleges and universities were delighted to enroll mature experienced students on the GI Bill.)
What about existing volunteer programs?
I served for several years in both the Civil Air Patrol (auxiliary of the USAF) and the US Coast Guard Auxiliary, which assists the USCG in noncombat missions. Many states also have State Defense Forces, which are military forces solely under state control (they cannot be Federalized, unlike the National Guard) operating along US Army lines, though a handful of states have Air Force and Navy units.
CAP and USCG AUX wear military-type uniforms but are not under the UCMJ. SDF's usually fall under their state's National Guard Regulations.
There are no medical/age restrictions on CAP and USCG AUX, but you have to undergo a background check (USCG AUX background check is more involved). SDF's usually have medical restrictions.
They Can Be a Part of the Whole
I believe that the full range of volunteer programs can contribute to producing a system of service opportunities. The necessary catalyst for creating that system is a requirement of service by all.
ok national service..lets see how about this:
I see and understand, national service would be a good thing if you do it the right way,the fair way,legal way etc. If your 18 year old and you got plans you should be able to pick weather or not you want to go to school,military, or work. You have to look at other nations with conscription or national service like that of the state of Israel, Switzerland, a better example would be Singapore there military is a fair and do able for all those who serve in National service aka (NS). The men get drafted at 18 and do 2 years of military service after words they do either operational reserves meaning they are ready and able to be sent overseas and the citizens reserves is a reserves that stays home period those are the chioces until 40 years of age. Another good reason that Singapore has a great system when it comes to national service is Men with medical problems asthma or diabetics they serve but don't serve in combat vocations and only train in BMT (basic military training) for 7 weeks if they want to do more training they may do so and are designated as a reservist in non combat roles. Another example men with obesity over weight they are drafted as will and do 17 weeks of Basic military training regardless of weight.
Of course they have a chioce to go for deferments, if we have national service we should be able to do either apply for deferments for full time military service on medical grounds, consisncane objectivor, education reason, ethical, worker etc. Reserve duty on the other hand would and should be something of a mandatory national service also be able to be allowed men and women the option of servicing either as full time NS men/women or part-time NS men/women under operational reserves for patinsul overseas duty or citizen reserves who stays in the United States period. Military service can either build a new person or destroy the person and not on the field of battle but daily military life with that in mind the NS men/women should be able to opt out of NS service on grounds of work or education this of course would only be with those NS men/women serving in the reserves on all levels operational or citizen reserve. Full-timers serve through and through until there 1 or 2 years service is up, the women should serve in manner the way that of men serve. If a student is pushing to become a college or university degree holder noteabley those pursing BS and BA degrees he or she should not have to serve. Unless they have opted to leave college or university thus liable to serve NS. If however they wish to stay in school but have money issues they should be aided until they've received the degrees and thus required to perform NS at the concluding of there studies with that they would perform reserve duty unless they opt to perform full-time NS. Age would be an important factor in who serves in what and when, if there healthy not a objector of national service and is 18 up to 24 and have not been conscripted they must do full-time NS for 1 or 2 years, ages 25-40 will perform part-time NS men and women who are above the ages of 40 and on words if they wish to still serve NS who are able and willing to perform NS service regardless of age should do so if be allowed so and if need be of there service or are up to the task of performing NS. In this time NS personal who perform reserves duty should be able to at certain periods of there service with special permission take a genuris extended leave of absence from both work and NS duty if allowed by the employer and the military commander or NCO may be allowed to grant the NS man/women to take a leave of absence for not greater then 2 months for operational reserves and 3 months for citizens reserves. There should be a reasonable pay,medical benefits,educational benefits for NS personal with childern or dependences, or those who circumstances are that they need the assistance of the military or state government (not federal) State government. NS personal should serve in all elements of all the branches of services army,marines,air force,navy,coast,guard or state defense forces. part-time or full-time. Those who wish to volunteer may do so but will only have to fallow the standard department of defense policy meaning a person with weight issues, asthma,diebeaties can't join any of the branches but NS personal who have weight issues, asthma,diebeaties, etc would be allowed to serve only part time duty under certain roles and time frames and types of reserves. Depending of the type of reserves those with medical issues may serve in only the citizen reserves. if those NS personal with minor medical issues who serve can't be deployed overseas to war zones unless able and willing to do so, but can be deployed to overseas training exercises or declared safe countries that have US bases. If a NS personal regardless of medical or type of reserve those that have the ability to do more and wish to do more in terms of advancing to jobs, ranks officers or NCOs or combat vocations should be allowed so as a equal opptunets to excel within National service. If a women should be conseving a child regardless of what type of service or before being conscripted they should be released opt out of NS unless they feel that after having a child after child birth is willing and able to serve in NS then she should be allowed to do so but if not then she should be allowed to not have to serve in NS, if the womens husband,boyfriend, or father/guardian is serving in NS should be allowed extra benefits if the son,husband,boyfriend,daughter,wife, girlfriend or single parent or guardian
(with a child should be allowed extra benefits or option to opt out of NS if single or widow).
For example a person with asthma serving in citizen reserves would be allowed if able to perform be allowed to serve in a combat job or become a officer.
If we did this the right way,the fair way,legal way. Then it would work if only those who experiment this for 5 years or more then it could be a good change or it can be a flop if those who serve make it bad. Singapore,Switzerland,Sweden,Germany, Denmark and Finland they use conscription or national service and if you look at there examples or there country's and see what could be something of a good thing for this country many people need military service some people think they don't need military service like my 5 friends that joined the navy they hated the untied states and yet they joined the navy they love it cause before they had no life's always on an Xbox and no money and full of disrespect for the United States, until they joined the navy. The gangs think they're serving their community by representing a color or turf...have a drill Sargent get them in line they'll know the meaning of serving something greater then a color,a piece of turf, a friend and get that young man or women a life a head start because no one is going to help not his or her mom not his or her dad not a teacher. If the national service is able to help not just the nation but those serving in NS in pay,medical benefits,educational, time of service. If they failed in school they will fail in life this when they stop caring and start thinking the wrong ways is the best way. I am a very young man only 20 years old and feeling like I have no more reason to live in the United states no money for school or not being allowed the honor to serve because of my asthma not even being tested to see if I could serve, overseas is my best option. If we had an NS system like the the one I proposed then it could work and make me think very differently about the US. but I've seen to much BS and I am seeing boys fighting over stupid things like race and drugs and when I see these boys join the military they come out men with a plan and a sense of perpise. Most of the boys who don't join they stay the same way not caring about anyone they don't even know that theres a war and when they hear there is one, there like so what not my problem, economy not my problem, health care not my problem, education system not my problem they failed me. This what they think and they apply it very will obveusly. The military would make them work hard thus making a hard worker the military makes a planer. If we allow the NS to conspricpt us then you better make either make me feel like I should serve or because your the one who drafted me get me a reasonable time to serve, with ok or good benefits or something.
then it can work, it's actually up to all of you.
Mandatory Volunteers
As a retired military person (22 years) and a returned Peace Corps Volunteer (successful 27 month tour), I find the naivete and idealistic silliness of the entire proposal typical of those who have the "It works for me, so I will require you to do it" attitude.
One cannot discuss the joys of volunteerism and the satisfaction of service in the same breath with the term "mandatory"
It is either mandatory or it is voluntary -- one or the other. What are you going to do with those of us who refuse? (yes, I am over 40, but you get the question........)
I recommend Robert A. Heinlein's fine novel _Starship Troopers_ to any and all of those who are serious. Don't do it half-assed -- do it right.
Mandatory Service Does Not Kill Voluntarism
I disagree with the premise of your comment. Mandatory service will become a part of every American's life. It is part of the responsibility of citizenship. I support it not because I think it will make every person get the warm feeling that comes from service. Rather, I support it because I think it will make a difference for the country, and in the process, will also make difference in the lives of young people who serve.
First, the country is provided with the full-time attention of a million young people, employed in a range of services (from military to ecological, from education to health, from clerical to manual labor.) I imagine that many of these people will be working with the nation's nonprofit organizations, strengthening programs serving the most vulnerable populations. These young people will also strengthen the military, for required service will lead more into the armed services than the current volunteer only approach.
Second, each person who goes through a national service stint will gain experience and exposure to a variety of people and problems. Each will have a chance to be challenged in work, to learn more about his/her own strengths, and to understand how other parts of the society operate. While many of the people who served in World War II, Tom Brokaw's "greatest generation," were in fact drafted into service, many of them left with valuable experience and maturity. ADMITTEDLY, they also served in a horrific war and were fortunate to leave unhurt physically and mentally. Regardless, I believe the lessons of service, even when mandatory, are significant and beneficial.
We are free people
If you believe that your program so wonderful. Then you should lead by example and persuade rather than force. We are so lucky to be born in a free country where people can make their own choices. I will fight foolish people like you to my dying breath using every possible means at my disposal.
Cheers!
The Devil is in the Details
I think most people would think this to be a great idea, but ideas alway turn out to be more complicated once they are brought to the attention of the general public. That is when you find out how realistic National Service could be in everyone's life. Thinking through the possibilities is complicated beginning in High School. For example who gets to decide where they go? As a mother of a daughter if there are only positions in Iraq, forget it. Who will pay for insurance for the children right out of high school? Who supports them during this time? How to they provide transportation for themselves. The list goes on. I really think you are preying on the young minds that don't understand the complexities of life. It sounds good on the surface, like a piece of candy, but once you've bitten into the core it can turn bitter. Are all of our children at 18 prepared for this. I think not. Life is difficult.
I would never blindly agree to something like this without seeing a detailed plan. This does seem like being a servant to the national agenda. I would suggest you drop this down to the three months after high school! This plan is just to unreasonable for anyone. I certainly would not support my son or daughter having to serve without being paid at least $10 an hour plus insurance. Being paid would at least encourage graduation from High School, solve the problem of taking jobs from other people for no pay, and prevent our children living in poverty.
None of this would work without the cooperation of every High School and College in America. What would the costs be to start up such a plan? What's the overhead going to be? What government agency with oversee this and ultimately be responsible if something tragic happens? How could this not result increase costs on the National Budget?
Communist Servitude
The way to diminish the true joy that comes from volunteering is to make it mandatory. Ohh it sounds noble, so anyone against it must be against there country, right?
Give me a break. This is nothing more than a few mis-guided secular progressives forcing there will on the american people. Mandatory servitude will ruin the spirit of volunteerism, reduce the number of jobs available to the working class and plung some young folks into poverty by taking valuable college learning years away from them. Service to our country is not for everyone. People do it, because they want to, not because they are forced to. Most military individuals join the military because they either want a good start in life, the GI bill or need the money. I do not want to diminish those who do it because they feel the need to serve. However, I bet that most do it for other reasons that the need to serve. Money, college tuition and free world travel are other top reasons why folks join.
I could not believe an article that I read where Charlie Rangel, a staunch supporter of this mandatory service, said "To ensure that the burden is shared, no deferments would be allowed beyond the completion of high school." Shared burden? Sounds a bit like communism Mr. Rangel. Sounds to me like this creates a massive burden for millions of Americans Mr. Rangel. Wouldn't you agree?
Also, I am very concerned about the age window (18 tp 40 years of age.) Does this mean that a single mom or dad that is 38 years of age with three kids, required to serve 2 years? How the heck are they going to do that while supporting a family alone? They are barely surviving as it is. Do they now quit work to go serve the country? What happens to their kids? Ohh, and if they don't serve, do you throw them in jail? Common folks? Lets think before we come up with these so called noble ideas.
No doubt, service to our country is noble and honorable. Once you make it mandatory, you diminish it and ruin the incentive.
Do we really want politicians like Charlie Rangel running our country? Sounds to me like ideas such as these will plunge our country in to forced labor. Then everyone will be miserable. Common, lets "share the burden" folks:-).
MILITARY OR CIVILIAN
Why don’t we entertain, every High School Graduate go through Military Basic Training? Upon completion of such training, each individual is given the choice: military or civilian. We might be surprised at the outcome.
That might work...
I agree that if everyone has to serve in some way, the result will probably be more people opting for the military.
The Details Are Negotiable, as Long as Everyone Serves
Everyone serving makes national service a common experience for all Americans. We live in a country that offers us remarkable freedoms and gifts. To ask that every young person participate in a two-year period of service is a chance to strengthen the society and the understanding of service as a bedrock of democracy.
I don't care about the details, as long as everyone serves. Practically, I would expect a program like this would come into action with a cohort of young people, not single 38-year-old heads of families. These young people will gain opportunities that will strengthen their college years, and will be exposed to work that might also strengthen their working careers. Each year, there will be a group of about 4 million 18-year-olds. Therefore a program of national service would clearly be well supplied if it focused on those age 18 to 22. The full age range (18-40) is used to be sure that people reaching 18 as of a certain date will be part of the service program, even if they find a way to delay participation for a few years.
Today I received an email comment that agreed with this program, "as long as there are no exceptions." If we have a program where everyone serves, we will help most young people find better focus in their careers, strengthen our communities and society, and help our military find talented young people for voluntary service. Let's honor those who serve by bringing all into service.
To serve is to honor and
To serve is to honor and respect! This type of action is one that is developed within one's personality. I am not sure that mandatory service will have the proper impact that morale responsibility will have when properly educated and inspired individuals make a choice repeatedly during their lifetimes to serve and volunteer as the needs of their communities rise and fall. Many citizens serve in many ways through labor and financial contributions. Some give in return for what they have received during their time of need or perceived fortune in relation to those around them. Regardless of how or why, the diversity and complexity of this process is as integral to our nation as the diversity and complexity of the people in the nation. The only way I would support such a notion is if it were not mandatory, rather encouraged, supported, and completion of the service is documented to provide favor to those completing service by employers in the community. Service should be encouraged as a continuing lifetime achievement.
I respect your perspective
I respect your perspective, and I think that voluntary service deserves a very high level of respect. At the same time, I support mandatory service because it creates a common commitment and a common sacrifice. Today it is too easy for those who don't need the benefits of public service to ignore it completely, and to live privileged lives with no significant contribution to the health of the society or community. Service for all makes each of us aware of our common responsibilities and with our common liberties. In the process we each earn our citizenship and build our society.
You are so wrong
When people educate themselves, work hard, raise their families, pay their taxes, and generally live their lives - that ALSO contributes to society as a whole. Forcing young people into two years of servitude is NOT building society - that is building a STATIST GOVERNMENT at the EXPENSE of society. Society and government are NOT the same thing!
It is good to have concern for greater society - but such concern MUST come from WITHIN according to the individual's own understanding of what is good. Forcing people into your vision of the good will INEVITABLY lead to evil. The kind of men who would be attracted by the power you give them would not have the wisdom and clean motives of philosopher kings that you imagine yourselves to be.
Cheers!
It's Wrong
My opposition to this is for the following reasons.
First and foremost, I do not believe that the government has any right to force people into "service" against their will. It's that simple. No, I'm not a Libertarian, I'm a Democrat, I consider myself a liberal Democrat. Liberal, meaning personal freedom and civil liberties. Why do you believe that the government has any right to separate husbands and wifes? Separate mothers and fathers from their children? People have responsibilities to their families and their families well being. That comes before any responsibility to "serve" their country. Any American who is a good person with a family they love and working a job to pay the bills and try to build a future for their loved ones is "serving" a "greater good".
National service to be commended. It should remain voluntary. I have no problem with encouraging and making incentives for service, but mandatory is wrong and I will never be convinced otherwise.
Let's Be Realistic
A national service program will not do the things you describe, for it will be something that everyone does before they begin college or begin full-time employment. Yes, we use the full age range (18-40) others have adopted for a draft, but if this is to succeed it will be part of every young person's development: school through 12th grade, 2 years service, and on to job or college. Therefore this is not the scourge you describe: separating couples and families. Rather this program would offer two substantial benefits: one is to the nation through the work done by young people; two is to the young people who are exposed to new situations, given new challenges, and prepared for a more successful adulthood.
Do you remember the Peace Corps promotion: "it's the toughest job you'll ever love?" That motto is highlighting the reward that participants get from their service. Talk with anyone who works with volunteers or who has volunteered themselves. They will tell you that the volunteer often gets more out of it than the recipient of that service. A well-run national service program has the chance to produce individuals who are more aware of the people and challenges of this country, better prepared to make the most of the job or college, and understand the sacrifice made by those who volunteer to serve our country.
Sometimes I think we should stop calling this a national service program and just say that mandatory schooling should have two additional years. After the classroom work is completed in 12th grade, the service or field work is done for the next two years. Everyone does it in order to be well prepared for the next steps.
Finally, thank you for your reasoned objections to my posting. I've have been frustrated by flat claims that mandatory service is slavery and that it's outlawed by Article XIII, Sec. 1 of the Constitution. If you are a booster of voluntary national service, please let that support be known to others who are working to expand it. Tell the candidates that you want them to make national service a widely available opportunity for all who want to volunteer for it.
You're welcome. I believe
You're welcome. I believe that your ideas, and most of those who advocate this national service idea are well intended, therefore a "you're wrong and crazy!" is not needed as part of the discussion. To make things better for our country, we need both sides of arguments, we need those arguments to be sincere and we to find solutions, not blame for problems.
While I may not completely agree on mandating anyone over the age of 18, I believe framing it as 2 more years of mandatory schooling may be a more acceptable idea. After all, any high school student over 18 years old today is able to drop out, although most do not. So, this would still give the 18 year old adult a "choice", but most would likely choose to stay for the 2 last years.
Although I disagree that it would not affect families the way I stated it would. Many people in their early 20's are married or at least have children. Even more people in their late 20's thru the 30's have spouses, children, jobs etc. I do not, and will never, believe this should be an area where the government can force you to serve.
The words "mandatory national service" will never go over well with a huge portion of the American people.
By any other name...
[...While I may not completely agree on mandating anyone over the age of 18, I believe framing it as 2 more years of mandatory schooling may be a more acceptable idea. ...]
So, your opposition to forced servitude is based primarily on what they call it?!?!
If you imagine that the children of the elite and powerful would not be exempt from this scheme, then I have a bridge to Brooklyn that I want to sell you...
out of context
You took my comment out of context. Real nice.
This, is what I said, after what you cut and pasted.
"After all, any high school student over 18 years old today is able to drop out, although most do not. So, this would still give the 18 year old adult a "choice", but most would likely choose to stay for the 2 last years."
I said there would be a choice. Real nice.
Mandatory Civil Service
I have read quite a bit of debate on this subject, and I'm using it as a thesis for a college writing essay. My interest however is a bit more personal. I am a warrant officer serving in the US Army with thirteen years of service behind me (three of those in Iraq). I firmly believe that mandatory civil service would benefit our country as a whole, and help educate a larger part of our country that has grown selfish and morose over the past century.
I do not advocate a mandatory military service, although it can be a voluntary alternative. Civil service should not be a simple plan hurredly implemented to gain votes or push a political agenda (there are enough of those). I've read many good approaches to the topic, and this program could very well work and benefit the nation - not for political slavery, but for personal accomplishment and pride.
We live in one of the best nations of the world, but any that would oppose some sort of civil service or voluntary optional programs has misplaced their sense of perspective. Loud, emotional responses, especially those full of terrible grammar and poor spelling don't really help the cause - from either side. If you oppose an idea, please respond intelligently, or at least with minimal profanity and emotional outcry.
Adding a voluntary program in high school with summer programs is an excellent idea, and one that would obviously count toward the "mandatory" civil service. There are as many possible programs, volunteer fields, and opportunities as there are people and problems in the country. Not everyone would be carted off to fight forest fires in California, or be pressed into military-like public service. There are obviously citizens with emotional and physical needs that must be accounted for. There are also vast cultural and aptitude differences. A battery of skill/knowledge tests, as well as a list of preferences, all with background information would be critical for proper placement.
All of this I support, but everyone needs to realize that Americans, in general, are not receptive of sudden change - especially when it requires them to do something. Implement programs, field them voluntarily to test them. Slowly evolve the program until a workable, agreeable solution exists. The moment the people perceive mandatory service as police officers storming their neighborhoods searching for their first born children for a mandatory draft... Well, you get the idea. No half-measures, but extensive planning, preparation, and public education needs to precede any sudden, mandatory requirement. I would very much like to see mandatory civil service programs implemented, but approached carefully.
Respectfully,
Eric J. Bolden
CW2, USA
Thank You for the Careful Presentation
You make a real contribution by exploring how a service program might actually grow and take root. From the responses at this site and observations of the discussions online, I'd agree that a mandatory plan launching June 2009 would not be an effective way to win votes. (Of course this opinion is based on observing online responses, and online activists were most fervent in their support of Ron Paul, who failed to win a state primary.)
Good luck with your thesis. It seems to be off to a good start.
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